Utah providers Dr. Stephanie Coleman and Morgan Gonzales, LCSW from Therapy Transformed and JournEase, respectively, share questions to ask facilitators before making the decision to work with them and offer the reminder that consent can be withdrawn at any time!
If you are interested in working with Morgan or Dr. Coleman as a client or learning from them as a facilitator, learn more on their websites: https://www.therapytransformed.com/ and https://www.myjournease.com/.
Auto Generated Transcript:
Dr. Coleman: Hi everyone my name is Dr Stephanie Coleman I am the owner and founder of Journey Academy practice here in Salt Lake City I have been practicing in the ketamine space for over four years having a practice in LA and now here in Salt Lake City. I work with clients and I've been facilitating training for the last four plus years as well and I'm happy to be here with all of you.
Morgan Gonzales LCSW: Hi my name is Morgan Gonzalez I am a licensed clinical social worker I have been part of the first ever cine Clinic here in the state of Utah I have been sitting with Ketamine for the past eight years my training is pretty diverse and Broad and I've had the honor and privilege to work with Dr Coleman in our own space and so we are so excited to be here you may have also seen me when I talked at the Psychedelic Society conference and so we've been asked to provide some general information and some help.
Dr. Coleman: We care a lot about safety um the way that we practice and Morgan will speak more about this after but we really focus on Quality Care ethical care harm reduction and safety in in both the medical space and in non-medical spaces um and as part of that harm reduction and safety in in all spaces we think it's really important that when you are seeking out a psychedelic experience a psychedelic space a psychedelic facilitator that there are certain things that you should be asking to keep yourself safe and to um really know what you're getting yourself into and as and on the flip side there are things that those facilitators um should be doing with you and asking uh questions of you so we're going to kind of review some of those things to kind of um educate and to expand upon some knowledge you might already have I'm going to talk about from uh the client perspective and I'll use the term client because that's what we use but you may have a different different terminology and that's okay um when you're seeking out psychedelic experiences it's important to know whether you're seeking out legal or potentially not legal things because that's going to make potentially little bit harder to figure out what is safe or what's not safe or at least to know kind of the way things work you may have to ask different or more questions um when you are speaking to the facilitator one how did you find them is it well who like referred you to them did you find them on Google like is it a a trusted Source um what's their name sometimes people use different names or have uh you know developed names in some type of Shaman like approach if they use the word Shaman that's that's another thing you want to interrogate about but um what is their background like what is their experience with the drug they're going to be working with with you um what's their training right have they apprenticed have they done real training what is their personal experience with the the drug how long have they' been working with it um where are you going to be doing it what's the place is it in your home is it in in their home is there who's going to be there just you two is it a group how many people are in the group how many people are supporting and facilitating if there's more than one person taking drugs um what's the emergency plan uh so if we are working with things that are not uh you know street legal um what if something goes wrong medically or or psychologically are they going to call uh 911 uh when that means that there's risk of you know some legal issues so you want to know that what drug are you working with what how do they dose and what are they expecting the dose that you will be taking where are they sourcing their drugs so if these are not uh pharmaceutical products that are gotten in a legal manner so I recognize some Street some non street legal drugs can also be pharmaceutical but not necessarily gotten in the same way um how are they testing their drugs and where are they sourcing their drugs if they can't answer these questions I I would be a little bit concerned um and then you know how long is the experience what type of support do you have what are they going to do if you struggle how do they keep you medically safe like if you have any medical conditions or medications do they know how to know if that's safe for you or what you should do with that what how do they work with preparation how do they prepare you for the actual session um do you need a ride can you eat something can you not eat something do you need to fast beforehand what do they do afterwards like how long is the session going to be what do you do when you get home and are you ever going to see them again what happens if something goes wrong once you leave there how are they available and when and how do you get a hold of them um these are kind of big questions that should be easily answered by people you are working with and and I get there are you know some more nuanced answers or some more questions that may be vice versa but the other thing you really want to pay attention to is how do you feel so is there something in your gut that tells you like oh I don't know I feel a little weird But like everyone else is doing it or like this person came recommended I'm sure they'll do an okay job but I'm probably just nervous if something doesn't feel right it is okay to say no and you should even if you're you're fine you're fine you're fine you get there and you're about to put the drug in your body in whatever way you're doing that and you're like I don't something is off for me say no also talk about money in advance um and how the exchange of money or whatever the exchange will be um oh import what do they do around touch once you've taken drugs what is their uh um um feelings in in practices around consent um those are important um I think those are kind of the main things from the client side um and I'm sure if I missed any Morgan will share but I want Morgan to also share about as a facilitator um what should that facilitator be doing with you the Cent and what should they be asking you.
Morgan Gonzales LCSW: Wonderful thank you so much so some of the things that Stephanie um touched on is like how we work and some of the things that I have witnessed and and been involved in kind of noticing here in Utah is that it's the Wild Wild West so about eight years ago no one was really doing ketamine and when we started doing ketamine there was a lot of dialogue around like how does this work? What does this look like? And then all of a sudden we have this really big blow up socially pop psychology everybody's like I want to do psychedelics they're lifechanging and so we've also seen the kind of the cropping up of like a lot of people searching to do psychedelic medicine and as I have watched this kind of change and grow in this community I get um Stephanie and I both get a lot of people coming back to us to say like I did this I my I'm not sure who my facilitator was I'm not sure what my dosage but I had a major psychological trauma come up and then I just left and they were like best of luck have a good time thanks for coming thanks for giving me money and thanks for doing this with me that poses a major ethical concern we have no regulations in the underground community and so part of this talk also is about how do we stay honest and ethical with ourselves Stephanie and I choose to actively work in the um above ground Community which is with ketamine we also actively choose to all the questions that Stephanie just posed we can answer every single one of those we also choose to provide ketamine care in a safe ethical um really I don't what's the word I'm looking for safe ethical high quality high quality um space in the fact that none of our clients are ever left alone in a room that is something that also is oh sorry say that again very relational we work in relationship with our clients and in relationship with the medicine we also really believe in the work that we do with ketamine and so as a facilitator and as practitioners some of the things that come up for me and um if you were at the conference you heard me talk about integration and reintegration but on top of that there's preparation so Stephanie and I preparate or do a preparation for every single one of our clients they also get a full psychological evaluation and medical evaluation this may not be done in kind of other areas but that preparation should be done it should be all of these questions having time with your facilitator to talk about issues or concerns or things that you're worried about or what's coming up for you how you're feeling about the process there is something to be said that when we choose to do medicine our ancestors are called to us I truly believe that that when we make the decision to do medicine we also need to be in tune with why we're doing medicine what are our intentions what are our go our facilitators intentions and what does this look like moving forward from preparation to integration and then on to reintegration we encourage everyone to ask what is the beginning what is the diet what what do I need to prepare for how do I psychologically prepare to move into this space as a facilitator also we always do integration after our session so no one leaves ketamine session without doing integration and we do integration past that so we do Post ketamine integration where maybe it's 24 hours maybe it's 72 hours but we're always integrating this experience does your facilitator provide this or are they letting you know bye you can leave follow up or there's no follow up or you can follow up with me at your will as I know working with as many clients as I have most people are nervous to follow up and like write and say like I'm not doing well or I'm struggling what is the integration plan for these facilitators after integration we look at reintegration how do we take what we experienced in medicine and how do we then move into Community back with self back with um friends Partners relationships this medicine is about relationships that's why we work in a relational frame and so looking at that is like what is your facilitator providing you what comes with this and what is your post care is really important some things that Stephanie touched on is ethical touch we believe that um actually we don't believe what is correct is that once someone is given a drug or a medicine they cannot legally give consent so therefore Stephanie and I speak to every single one of our clients about ethical touch and consent and so being really clear about that of how will your guide or your facilitator touch you what is ethical what do you feel uncomfortable with you know your body and you know your activation spaces if they say they're going to use Touch in this way how does that feel for you to know that touch is going to happen we also know that some facilitators in um Eastern medicine will decide to take medicine while someone else is also on medicine and they're facilitating how does that feel for you that is something that Stephanie and I actually would never ever say would be ethical to do as an Eastern or Western philosophy because it creates an unsafe environment who will help you if you have distress not if you have distress but when you have distress stress who is going to be able to hold that space for you.
Dr. Coleman: One little like caveat on that um so in indigenous practices there it is common for facilitators to take a small amount of medicine now they have trained and have worked in and have lived in that practice and they work in a very different way if they're working with their Community right like community and integration is built in because they live together so it is very different than a like provider here in the US being like "I'm going to take some mushrooms while I give you mushrooms" that's a very different practice and so I just want to distinguish like what we're talking about um and why we think that that is uh creates a safety issue um one that I have experienced personally.
Morgan Gonzales LCSW: Wonderful thank you for clarifying that so really what we wanted to do is we wanted to get on and provide education we are so passionate about this work that we do some of the things that we offer I'm going to let Stephanie kind of talk about some of the things that we offer but education is our number one goal and our priority here at therapy transformed and Journeys we educate all of our clients we also are really clear that like we're not for everyone and all medicine isn't for everyone so really knowing you how you feel and how this what's coming up for you before you ever decide to step into medicine space.
Dr. Coleman: One other thing sorry I'm always gonna think of more things but when we talk about like uh Therapeutic Touch there's a difference between Therapeutic Touch that's you know been discussed and consented for and safety touch where like keeping somebody safe may mean that you end up like grabbing them in a way that you you wouldn't or haven't talked about what is never ethical is any sexual touch I don't I it doesn't matter what you consent as a facilitator um there is a relationship that is there and there are there are ethics and bound boundaries around that and no se sexual touch should be happening um around medicine or in medicine spaces.
Morgan Gonzales LCSW: Yeah I love that you brought that up there is a power Dynamic um as a facilitator and as practitioners Stephanie and I automatically hold a position of power and our clients are in a vulnerable position and so really reminding yourself of that too as a client as you're moving forward in this knowing that that position of power does exist and how are you going to not only talk about safety ethical touch but how do you feel about your own boundaries and kind of what's coming up for you around that that should be a discussion that's right at the beginning of every medicine journey
Dr. Coleman: And I think it's you know it's important to say a lot of these drugs are are medically overall pretty safe but psychologically some real harm can be done and and what we care a lot about and I think maybe what we'll do is a another video at some point around what is trauma informed care because all humans have trauma it's going to look different for everybody and sometimes we don't know what our trauma is we might not have access to it in our conscious brain um and and we want to make sure the people that like are giving us these substances that put us in highly highly highly vulnerable States know how to be trauma informed um and we can do a different kind of talk about what that actually means um but at at uh so my company's Journeys Morgan's company's Therapy Transformed we work together like this or like this however you want to think about it um to together um and we offer a few different things so in our space and we call a space because we really uh a a big thing that we do with our companies as education and community and we want a space for for safe ethical providers and PE and clients to to be able to come to is we do a few different things so we offer ketamine assisted therapy for individuals um and we have a very specific way of working which is very very different than what's being done out there particularly here in Utah very different um and and I think it's very valuable to do individual work and I believe that we're also meant to heal in in community um and I think that there's an accelerated nature to doing community healing and it's actually kind of like you level up like you do your individual work and then how do you like take to the next level and that's where you do group work um so the reason we offer groups and we do group ketamine treatment is specifically for those reasons is that we really believe that there is something magical that happens in the group um that really helps to kind of facilitate that process of healing so we offer group uh treatment and we kind of have a general group that anyone's invited to and then we also offer a um a specific group for those that are identify with a queer or trans uh communities uh so that it can be a separate space and safe space um for those communities as well and then the way that we do most of our booster sessions so if you're familiar with ketamine there's like an initial series of of sessions and then people get boosters at variable intervals um we tend to do most of those in in group as well and we have a female identifying a male identifying and then a a queer and trans identifying group boosters that are separated out as well then in addition to just ketamine treatment we do a lot of education so we have uh two different trainings that we do we do a ketamine 101 training which is really a foundational basic ketamine training for those licensed practitioners whether they be medical or therapy um that want to learn how to do this work and do work well um do this work well means quality and ethics uh and not not financially um and then the other training that we offer is a harm reduction and sitter training and and I we have yet to come to a different word than sitter that we like because I don't like the word guide either but that's what we're using sitter and we know that you do more than just sit but um our our goal with that is really education I, I feel that popularity is rapidly outpacing education in the Psychedelic space and that's a problem and so how can we create more education for those who may be wanting to just know more about what they're about to step into if they're going to be taking psychedelics in a healing way if they're going to be facilitating or if they're going to be supporting right so you know there are a lot of cine clinics that sick people alone in a room and and say good luck and here's your IV and I think they could do that better and training someone who knows how to hold that space and it could be amazing if they would incorporate some of this we're well aware that psychedelics work happens outside of uh Western Medicine legal ketamine space um and I and I'm well aware that things are happening not so great in that space as well how can we make that safer for facilitators and for people who are going to uh be taking medicine um and then just how do we support our friends and family right so it's because psychedelics are very popular and it's in like social media and it's it's it's a big thing and there's clinical trials and there's laws and all this how do we support friends and families who may have had challenging experiences or or negative experiences um and how do we just know what what is safe right how do we keep each other safe and keep ourselves safe so that's kind of what we offer in in a nutshell um do you want to share a little bit also about what we're doing kind of some Community offerings?
Morgan Gonzales LCSW: Our community space is really wonderful we have really tried to um bring we're on the kind of the west side right by the capital in the marmalade district and we've we've really been honored to have the old ACLU an old um Pride building space as our office and we really encourage practitioners with yoga sound bath breathwork we want practitioners to be in that space we want to offer that to the community right now we have a few weekly classes we also have a few workshops that we offer to really support community and growth and change therapy transformed was out of transforming therapy and getting everyone off of the couch and more into like using different alternative holistic modalities for support and care and so Stephanie and I are really really passionate about our space and how our providers can show up to support and different ways not just ketamine not just therapy but how can we integrate other processes and we use this as a part of our integration tool for our ketamine clients so we are offering some amazing things in our space we are all about Community if you want to find us please reach out I am www.therapytransform.com you can also email me at morgan@therapytransform.com and Stephanie I'll let her share where she can find her.
Dr. Coleman: My website is website is https://www.myjournease.com/ similar for Instagram my.Journease my um and then you can find this one that's really social media is kind of the space um or come by and see us at our office uh a 300 355 North West 3 West I'm still I still get confused with the north they're all the same numbers different directions they are but um just down the street from West High if you know that or little bit further down the street from the Delta Center um yeah please feel free to reach out if you're interested in kind of learning from us working with us or just want to chat we love that too
Morgan Gonzales LCSW: Thank you all so much for coming and being involved and please stay safe thank you
Legal Disclaimer: The Psychedelic Society of Utah is a community grassroots movement working toward improving safe, quality psychedelic healing in Utah. Although we do our best to ensure the facilitators we partner with are working ethically and legally, we cannot guarantee this. We always recommend doing your own research and following your instincts when navigating psychedelic healing spaces. *
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